3.31.2005
Is is?
Jack and I were listening to NPR's Weekend Edition Sunday this week, and one of the guests was an old British gentleman who, as I do, laments the decline of spoken English. He was talking about some of the more egregious errors he hears, particularly on the radio, and one he brought up was the use phrases like the following: "The point IS is that..." or "The question IS is whether or not...," etc.
I confess that when he pointed to this error, I wondered who in the world he had heard this from. I thought, "My gosh, are people really that stupid?" And this week, I have realized that they are. SO many of the guests I've heard on NPR in the last few days have used a redundant "is." I don't think they realize how ridiculous it is is. Why would they use the word twice, when it is is a verb, and it's not like "really really" or some other word that can stand to be repeated. "Is is" is is just dumb. A variant of this that looks slightly less ridiculous, but which I've still heard lately, is is "was is," such as "The point of the meeting was is that..." Why?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Why, why, why?? The only justification I could possibly imagine would be if the person were really trying to express a duality of tense, in that the point of the meeting "was/is" such-and-such, because perhaps the point is is still valid. (And I think this is is a stretch and not at all what the person usually intends to say.)
People made fun of President Clinton for saying, in the context of the Lewinsky hearings, "It depends on what your definition of "is" is." However, that's technically correct, because he's using the first "is" as a noun-- the actual word "is"-- whereas the second "is" is is actually the verb. It sounded silly taken out of context, and I think he was sort of trying to stall and give the prosecutors the run-around, but at least it was/is correct grammar.
By the way, this is is my new grammar pet peeve. I plan to laugh rudely at anyone who says it.
I confess that when he pointed to this error, I wondered who in the world he had heard this from. I thought, "My gosh, are people really that stupid?" And this week, I have realized that they are. SO many of the guests I've heard on NPR in the last few days have used a redundant "is." I don't think they realize how ridiculous it is is. Why would they use the word twice, when it is is a verb, and it's not like "really really" or some other word that can stand to be repeated. "Is is" is is just dumb. A variant of this that looks slightly less ridiculous, but which I've still heard lately, is is "was is," such as "The point of the meeting was is that..." Why?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Why, why, why?? The only justification I could possibly imagine would be if the person were really trying to express a duality of tense, in that the point of the meeting "was/is" such-and-such, because perhaps the point is is still valid. (And I think this is is a stretch and not at all what the person usually intends to say.)
People made fun of President Clinton for saying, in the context of the Lewinsky hearings, "It depends on what your definition of "is" is." However, that's technically correct, because he's using the first "is" as a noun-- the actual word "is"-- whereas the second "is" is is actually the verb. It sounded silly taken out of context, and I think he was sort of trying to stall and give the prosecutors the run-around, but at least it was/is correct grammar.
By the way, this is is my new grammar pet peeve. I plan to laugh rudely at anyone who says it.
Labels: language, listening miscellany
- posted by erica 3/31/2005 12:10:00 PM
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Comments:
The point is....
He was talking about SPOKEN not written English. In spoken language words are often repeated not only for emphasis but perhaps more often because we use stock phrases when we speak. We don't treat every word separately, rather we treat them as a group. 'The point is' has probably become such a group of words. The people he is probably referring to also repeat the 'is' because they have perhaps paused in the middle of their thought. The point is...[pause]...is that blah blah blah. People often throw in extra words in spoken conversation because of pauses. I doubt it has anything to do with the innate intelligence of the speaker.
He was talking about SPOKEN not written English. In spoken language words are often repeated not only for emphasis but perhaps more often because we use stock phrases when we speak. We don't treat every word separately, rather we treat them as a group. 'The point is' has probably become such a group of words. The people he is probably referring to also repeat the 'is' because they have perhaps paused in the middle of their thought. The point is...[pause]...is that blah blah blah. People often throw in extra words in spoken conversation because of pauses. I doubt it has anything to do with the innate intelligence of the speaker.
First of all, when I've heard people say the repeated "is," there has been no pregnant pause. Even if there had been one, just because people often speak this way doesn't make it correct. I realize that spoken English is usually treated more leniently than written English, but mistakes of this kind, like most grammar mistakes, lead to ambiguity. Correct grammar is supposed to help clarify language and eliminate confusion, hence my dogmatic approach.
Thanks for the thoughts, whoever you are! It's an important debate for us have.
Thanks for the thoughts, whoever you are! It's an important debate for us have.
This has been one of my peeves for a while. I've heard and noticed it from time to time, but usually with an emphasis on the first "is." Dick Madison (among others) says it a lot; I'm not sure that I've heard it as much since we left Winston.
--Mom
--Mom
# posted by 
: Thu Mar 31, 10:17:00 PM EST
: Thu Mar 31, 10:17:00 PM EST
I really just stopped by here to thank you and Jack for the Chritmas presents you sent. Yeah! Presents! The Found magazine is quite an interesting collection of random bits of peoples lives.
But I got off work early today so I have a little extra time to ramble, so ahem..
The thing about it is, is that though the repetitiveness does show a lack of properly executed gramatical execution. Perhaps the repetitive nature of our media driven society, western pop, sample based electronic & hip hop music as well as constant bombardment of the same comercial gimmicks, sound bites, "news" stories and ads over and over ad nauseum is somehow imposing dualistic repetitive thought patterns into our run on setences. This combined with the increasing intentional twisting of speech to intentionally confuse and mislead the general public, particularily in political discourse but also in advertising and other arenas of communication as well may be contributing to the devolution of grammer. Furthermore the propagation of culturally rooted deviations and incorporations of other languages into our own further complicate the matter more. One could even infer that some people mindfully break the language down into their own mutated language such as Snoop Dog. For shizzle my bizzle, for example which seems more a combination of concious rebellion against the "mans" proper english and simultaneously serves as an alternative lingo for a culture which has had proper English forced upon them through that whole slavery thing that happened a while back.
I don't think it is quite fair to equate use of proper Queens english with intelligence. Otherwise must we assume non english speaking people are stupid. I mean aside from sign language which, lets face it, makes you look like a dork.
I think there is a fair body of evidence to suggest that many people throughout history who had quite a tenatious grasp on the "proper" use of their native toungue were in fact stupid. Likewise many people who may not be able to speak or write at all could probably teach us a few things about life. What is really lacking is education, not the same thing as intelligence. And the inevtiable natural course of the cross polination of cultures bleeding into and altering each other as the world becomes more interconnected. I would imagine that eventaually given enough time and exposure all the languages will meld into one just as eventually there will be no more white or black people just various variations of grey. Of course this will probably take a few thousand more years assuming the species survives that long. All cultures are caught in a battle between preserving their heritage and globalization. For better or for worse I predict that it is a losing battle. That is to say, are that grammer is be losing. Oh and speling two definitlee speling has gone downheel.
But I got off work early today so I have a little extra time to ramble, so ahem..
The thing about it is, is that though the repetitiveness does show a lack of properly executed gramatical execution. Perhaps the repetitive nature of our media driven society, western pop, sample based electronic & hip hop music as well as constant bombardment of the same comercial gimmicks, sound bites, "news" stories and ads over and over ad nauseum is somehow imposing dualistic repetitive thought patterns into our run on setences. This combined with the increasing intentional twisting of speech to intentionally confuse and mislead the general public, particularily in political discourse but also in advertising and other arenas of communication as well may be contributing to the devolution of grammer. Furthermore the propagation of culturally rooted deviations and incorporations of other languages into our own further complicate the matter more. One could even infer that some people mindfully break the language down into their own mutated language such as Snoop Dog. For shizzle my bizzle, for example which seems more a combination of concious rebellion against the "mans" proper english and simultaneously serves as an alternative lingo for a culture which has had proper English forced upon them through that whole slavery thing that happened a while back.
I don't think it is quite fair to equate use of proper Queens english with intelligence. Otherwise must we assume non english speaking people are stupid. I mean aside from sign language which, lets face it, makes you look like a dork.
I think there is a fair body of evidence to suggest that many people throughout history who had quite a tenatious grasp on the "proper" use of their native toungue were in fact stupid. Likewise many people who may not be able to speak or write at all could probably teach us a few things about life. What is really lacking is education, not the same thing as intelligence. And the inevtiable natural course of the cross polination of cultures bleeding into and altering each other as the world becomes more interconnected. I would imagine that eventaually given enough time and exposure all the languages will meld into one just as eventually there will be no more white or black people just various variations of grey. Of course this will probably take a few thousand more years assuming the species survives that long. All cultures are caught in a battle between preserving their heritage and globalization. For better or for worse I predict that it is a losing battle. That is to say, are that grammer is be losing. Oh and speling two definitlee speling has gone downheel.
Let's hope that the descendants of "black" and "white" people are various shades of beige, not gray; people only get gray when they're dead.
Mom (yes, we're definitely related!)
Mom (yes, we're definitely related!)
# posted by : Sat Apr 02, 05:38:00 PM EST
: Sat Apr 02, 05:38:00 PM EST
My last word on the subject is that I wasn't equating misuse of the Queen's English with stupidity. The "Are people really that stupid?" question referred only to this particular error, which shocked me because I saw no point to a repeated "is." I admit to a certain sadistic tendency to point out bad grammar, but I don't think that everyone who splits an infinitive or misuses a comma is a moron. I do think grammar mistakes point to a certain lack of attention to detail in the user, but then, we can't all be as detail-oriented as I am (that's tongue-in-cheek, by the way; I have just as many faults as the next person).
I mourn the loss of careful speech and careful writing, which I see as having the potential for artful communication, rather than simply bridging the shortest distance between two points. I wish people thought more about what they said and how they said it, but, like Lynne Truss (author of the recent book Eats, Shoots & Leaves), I realize I'm fighting a losing battle here.
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I mourn the loss of careful speech and careful writing, which I see as having the potential for artful communication, rather than simply bridging the shortest distance between two points. I wish people thought more about what they said and how they said it, but, like Lynne Truss (author of the recent book Eats, Shoots & Leaves), I realize I'm fighting a losing battle here.
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